真假马云Deciphering Jack Ma

Author: 刘韧 | Created: 2018-07-25

本文写于2008年。

This article was written in 2008. 

本文由全球首个语言信息公链LIC提供多语服务

1995年8月，杭州。马云家。电视台的摄像机在摄像。486电脑，电话拨号到上海电信，连接成功，打开Mosaic浏览器，敲入http：//www.chinapages.com。三个半小时之后，杭州望湖宾馆的网页下载完毕。指着从美国西雅图传回来的图片和简介，马云很自豪，很兴奋，他证明了他没骗大家，他证明了Internet的确存在……

Hangzhou, August 1995. Inside Jack Ma's home, there is a TV camera filming what is going on. Through his i486 computer, Jack dials into Shanghai Telecom. The connection is successful. He opens the Mosaic browser and keys in "http://www.chinapages.com". Three and a half hours later, the web page of Lakeview Hotel Hangzhou is fully downloaded. Pointing at the images and summary received from Seattle, Jack is both proud and excited. He has proven that he was not lying to everyone: the Internet truly exists... 

1964年9月10日，马云生在杭州。父母是半文盲。马云英文很好，13岁起，骑自行车带着老外满杭州跑；数学很差，敢考1分；自幼习武，喜欢打架，打得缝过13针，挨过处分，被迫转学杭州八中。

Jack Ma was born in Hangzhou on the 10th of September 1964 to semi-literate parents. He became proficient in English from a young age and began fetching foreigners around Hangzhou on a bicycle when he was 13. However, he was poor at math and once scored a whopping one mark in an exam. He practiced martial arts since his childhood, and enjoyed fighting so much that he once required 13 stitches, while in a separate incident, he was disciplined and forced to transfer to Hangzhou Eighth Middle School. 

18岁，当他想上北大的时候，他经历了第一次高考落榜；19岁，再次参加高考，再次落榜；20岁，第三次高考，勉强被杭州师范学院以专科生录取。因同专业招生不满，后被调配进入外语本科专业。

When he was 18, he had dreams of attending Peking University, but ended up failing the college entrance exams. At 19, he retook the exams but failed them once again. At 20, he retook them a third time and was narrowly accepted into Hangzhou Normal University as a junior college student. However, thanks to vacancies in the intake, he was subsequently allocated to the foreign languages undergraduate major. 

1984年，考上大学，只论英语，马云从此如鱼得水。很快当选校学生会主席，随后当选杭州市学联主席。1988年毕业，马云被分配到杭州电子工学院，教英语，每月89元工资。马云很快成为杭州优秀青年教师，发起西湖边上第一个英语角，开始在杭州翻译界有名气。因此，很多人来请马云做翻译，马云做不过来，于1992年成立海博翻译社，请退休老师做翻译。海博第一个月全部收入700元，房租2400元。为生存下去，马云背着大麻袋到义乌、广州去进货，海博翻译社开始卖鲜花，卖礼品。马云还曾经销售过一年的医药，推销对象上至大医院，下至赤脚医生。1994年海博持平，1995年开始赚钱。海博翻译社赚钱之后，马云就没再管它。

And so, Jack finally made it into university in 1984. Because the courses were taught only in English, he took to them like a duck to water, and was soon elected as chairperson of Hangzhou City's students' federation. After graduating in 1988, he was assigned as an English language lecturer to Hangzhou Dianzi University, where he earned a salary of 89 yuan per month. He quickly became an "Outstanding Young Teacher" of Hangzhou, and established the first English Corner by the side of West Lake. He also began to make a name for himself in Hangzhou's translation circle, and would subsequently receive more translation requests than he could handle. In 1992, he founded Hangzhou Hope Translation Agency, through which he invited retired teachers to do translation work. The agency amassed a revenue of 700 yuan in its first month, way lower than the monthly office rent of 2,400 yuan. In order to keep the business going, the agency began selling fresh flowers and gifts, and thus Jack had to carry large sacks to purchase stock from cities such as Yiwu and Guangzhou. For a year, he even sold medicine to clients ranging from big hospitals to barefoot doctors. The agency broke even in 1994 and became profitable from 1995. Jack no longer managed it after it turned profitable. 

1994年圣诞节后一周，杭州电子工学院。来自西雅图的外教比尔在和马云聊互联网。两个都不懂互联网，但这并不妨碍，比尔讲得很激动；也不妨碍，马云听得很激动。此时的马云，已经决定创业。“此前教给学生的东西都是从书本上贩卖而来，是在误人子弟。没意思。”马云在找机会。

Hangzhou Dianzi University, a week after Christmas 1994. Bill, a foreign lecturer from Seattle, was talking about the Internet with Jack. Though neither man understood the Internet, this was no hindrance. Bill spoke very excitedly about the topic, while Jack listened equally excitedly. By this time, the latter had already made up his mind to become an entrepreneur. "Everything which I've taught my students was copied from books. There's no meaning and fun in misguiding the young." He was on the lookout for an opportunity. 

1995年初，马云受托，作为翻译来到洛杉矶沟通落实一起高速公路投资，未果。马云从洛杉矶飞到西雅图找比尔。信仰互联网的比尔领马云去西雅图第一个ISP公司VBN参观。

Jack arrived in Los Angeles in early 1995 as a translator for a highway investment project which was ultimately unsuccessful. He took a flight to Seattle to find Bill, who as a believer in the Internet, brought Jack to visit Seattle's first ISP company, VBN. 

两间很小的办公室，猫着5个对着屏幕不停敲键盘的年轻人。马云不敢碰电脑。公司的人说，不要紧，你就用吧。公司的人打开Mosaic浏览器，键入Lycos.com，对马云说：“要查什么，你就在上面敲什么。”马云在上面敲了个beer，搜索出了德国啤酒美国啤酒和日本啤酒，就中国啤酒。马云敲Chinese，返回是no data.，马云又敲china history，找到一个50字的介绍。

Cramped within two very small offices were five young men who perpetually faced monitor screens while tapping away on their keyboards. Jack did not dare to touch the computers until an employee told him not to worry and to try using one. The employee opened the Mosaic browser and keyed in "Lycos.com" before telling Jack, "Type in whatever you want to search for." Jack entered the term "beer", which returned results of German beer, American beer, and Japanese beer, but none of Chinese beer. He then entered the term "Chinese", which returned the message "no data". He subsequently tried the term "china history", and found nothing but a 50-word introduction. 

马云问：“为什么有些能搜索到，有些搜索不到？”公司的人告诉他：“要先做个homepage，放到网上去，然后，全世界人都能搜索到了。”

He asked the employee, "Why are some things searchable while other things aren't?" To which the employee replied, "You have to create a homepage and put it on the web first. After that, anyone around the world will be able to find it." 

马云马上想到应该给海博翻译社做个homepage。上午9：30，马云守在机器旁，等着海博翻译社网页完工。按照马云的意思，制作人员在海博翻译社网页写明了报价、电话和信箱。中午12：30，马云离开。晚上，马云回来收到5封回信。来自日本、美国、德国的客户来问翻译价格，最后一封来自海外的华侨，是个留学生，他对马云说：“海博翻译社是互联网上第一家中国公司。”马云感到了互联网的神奇，他兴奋地对VBN公司说：“你在美国负责技术，我到中国找客户。咱们一起来做中国企业上网。”

Jack immediately thought of setting up a homepage for his translation agency. At 9:30 a.m., he waited beside the machine for the web page to be completed. According to Jack himself, the programmer provided the agency's translation rates, as well as a telephone number and an email address, on the web page. Jack left the company at 12:30 p.m., and when he returned at night, he noticed five messages in the inbox. Four of them were written by clients from Japan, the United States, and Germany, asking about the agency's translation rates. The last message was from an Overseas Chinese student who told Jack that "Hangzhou Hope Translation Agency is the first Chinese company on the Internet." Beginning to feel the magic of the Internet, Jack excitedly told VBN, "You shall be responsible for the technical aspect here in the US while I head back to China to find clients. Let's work together on China's Internet enterprise." 

1995年3月夜。杭州马云家坐着24位朋友，都是马云4年来在夜校教书时结识的外贸人士，马云想听听这些做外贸的人对Internet的商务需求。

24 friends were gathered in Jack Ma's home on one fine night in March 1995. These people were all foreign trade professionals who Jack had got to know over 4 years of teaching evening classes. He wanted to find out what business needs these professionals would have for the Internet. 

马云在对他们说：“我要辞职，干Internet。”马云开始宣讲Internet。马云讲了整整两个小时。马云讲得糊涂，大家听得同样糊涂。

He told them, "I want to quit my job and work on the Internet," following which he began to explain and extol the virtues of the Internet. After speaking for a good two hours, Jack became just as confused as his listeners. 

马云讲完，朋友们问了5个问题，马云都没答上来。23位朋友反对马云干Internet：“你开酒吧，开饭店，办个夜校，都行。就是干这个不行。”只有一个人说：“你要是真的想做的话，你倒是可以试试看。”

After he had spoken enough, his friends asked him five questions, none of which he was able to answer. At the end of the gathering, 23 of his friends opposed his plan. "You may open a bar, run a restaurant, or found your own night school. Anything but this." Only one person said, "You can give it a shot if you really want to." 

马云没听他们的，第二天一早，立即向学校辞职，然后，自己拿出六、七千元，向妹妹、妹夫借了一万多，凑足2万元。然后，马云给杭州电子工学院计算机教师何一兵打了电话：“你听说过Internet吗？我们一起干Internet……”

Jack did not heed their advice. The next day morning, he immediately resigned from his job at the school. He then pooled together a sum of 20,000 yuan, of which 7,000 was his own money while the rest was borrowed from his sister and brother-in-law. Subsequently, he rang up He Yibing, who was a computing teacher at Hangzhou Dianzi University. "Have you heard of the Internet? Let's work on the Internet together..." 

1995年4月，中国第一家互联网商业公司杭州海博电脑服务有限公司成立。三名员工是马云、马云夫人张瑛和何一兵。此时离中国电信通互联网还有4个月。

In April 1995, China's first Internet business company, Hangzhou Haibo Computer Services Limited, was established. Its three staff were Jack, his wife Zhang Ying, and He Yibing. At this time, China Telecom was still four months away from providing Internet services. 

1995年5月9日，http：//www.chinapages.com中国黄页上线，马云开始从身边的朋友做生意。他的生意经是，先向朋友描述Internet怎么怎么好，然后，向要他们资料，通过EMS寄到了美国，VBN将homepage做好，打印出来，再快递寄回杭州。马云将网页的打印稿拿给朋友看，并告诉朋友在Internet能看到。此时，离中国能上Internet还有3个月。

China Pages (http://www.chinapages.com) was launched online on the 9th of May 1995. Jack started to do business with his friends. His method was like this: he would first describe the pros and benefits of the Internet to his friends, and then request information regarding their companies from them. He would next send the information via EMS to the United States. VBN would do up a homepage, print it out, and send it back to Hangzhou via EMS. Jack would show the print-out of the web page to his friends and tell them that it was visible on the Internet.  At this time, China was still three months away from being able to access the Internet. 

不能实际地看到，朋友怀疑马云在编故事。马云说：“你可以给法国的朋友打电话，给德国的朋友打电话，或者给美国的朋友打电话，电话费我出，如果他说没有，那就算了；如果他说有，证明有了，你要付我们一点点钱。”中国黄页当时的收费标准是，一个homepage 3000字外加一张照片，收费2万元，其中1.2万给美国公司。

His friends suspected that he was running a scam because they were yet unable to see the web page for themselves. His reply to them was, "You can call your friends in France, Germany, or the US to take a look. I'll pay the call charges. If they say there's nothing, then forget it. But if they can see it, then that proves that it's real, and you'll have to pay us some money." The standard fee charged by China Pages at that time was 20,000 yuan for a homepage with 3,000 words and a photograph. Of this amount, 12,000 went to VBN. 

1995年，互联网上的中国网站太少，中国黄页效果很好。望湖宾馆是当时网上能看到的唯一的中国宾馆，时逢世界妇女代表大会，许多世界妇女代表到杭州后，专程过去看看望湖宾馆。钱江律师事务上线之后，留得是家里电话，半夜三更老是有人打电话给他。

In 1995, China Pages achieved strong results, in large part because there were few Chinese websites on the Internet. The only Chinese hotel which could be found on the web was Lakeview Hotel. Appropriately, during the World Conference on Women that year, many delegates paid a special visit to the hotel while touring Hangzhou. When Qianjiang Law Firm launched its own web page and placed a home number on it, the owner of this number began to be inundated with phone calls even in the middle of the night. 

北京连着两次舍弃

Abandoning Beijing in Quick Succession 

1999年初。夜。大雪。北京小酒馆。马云和18个手下不停地喝酒，吃肉，一直到醉，然后，唱《真心英雄》，说长相聚，多开心……天亮了，马云提议爬长城。长城上，终于有人忍不住嚎啕大哭。“为什么我们付出那么多，却什么也都不到？”马云无法回答，他忍住伤心，发誓要建立一个让所有中国人都为之骄傲的网站。马云指着长城上的“张三到此一游”，逗趣：“这是中国最早的BBS。”那晚8时，马云和18个手下跳上北京开往杭州的列车，挥手南下……

In a small Beijing pub on a night of heavy snow in early 1999. Jack and his 18 staff were eating and drinking non-stop to the point of inebriation. They began singing "True Hero" and expressing their wish for more such fun gatherings. When day broke, Jack suggested climbing the Great Wall, and so they did. On the Wall, one of them finally burst into tears. "Why do we have nothing to show for all our efforts?" Jack had no answer, but he checked his emotions and vowed to build a website which every Chinese citizen would be proud of. He pointed at the words "Zhang San was here" which were scribbled on the Wall and quipped, "This is China's first ever BBS." At 8 p.m. that night, Jack and his staff hopped on a train from Beijing to Hangzhou, and never looked back... 

中国黄页上线后，马云带何一兵到北京拜会当时的互联网偶像张树新。张树新很忙，她花了半小时见马云。

After the online launch of China Pages, Jack brought He Yibing to visit his Internet idol Zhang Shuxin, who could afford only half an hour to meet Jack as she was busy. 

从瀛海威出来，又望了一眼那块著名的“中国离信息高速公路离还有多远”牌子，马云对何一兵说：“如果互联网有人死的话，张树新一定比我死得更早。”“第一、她的观念我听不懂；第二、我做的是企业上网，她做的是老百姓上网。”

Stepping out from Inforhighway's office, and after taking another glance at the famous sign which read "How much further is China from the information superhighway?", Jack said to He Yibing, "If anyone dies because of the Internet, then Zhang Shuxin will surely die before me. Firstly, I can't understand her concept, and secondly, her business is about getting people to get online, whereas mine's about getting enterprises to do so." 

1995年7月，中国黄页为浙江省外宣办做了一个网站，在网上宣传浙江的经济文化，美其名曰“金鸽工程”。《钱江晚报》记者文敏、周丹以中国最早的政府上网工程为题大篇幅报道。文中说，“为金鸽工程下一步的技术问题，总经理马云已飞赴美国……”

In July 1995, China Pages created a website for Zhejiang Province's international communication office. The website, which publicized Zhejiang's economy and culture, was dubbed as the "Golden Pigeon Project". As it was China's earliest governmental online project, two journalists of Qianjiang Evening News, Wen Min and Zhou Dan, wrote a lengthy feature on it. One line read, "General Manager Jack Ma has flown to the United States to address the technical issues of Golden Pigeon Project's next step..." 

杭州出名之后，马云要进一步在全国成名。1995年12月，他再次来到北京，通过朋友介绍，认识了《北京青年报》一名司机。马云将稿件递给司机，同时塞给他500元钱。“不管什么媒体，发了就算你的。”司机很有能耐，发了5个媒体，还上了《中国贸易报》头版。马云意识到了《中国贸易报》有眼光，马上找到了该报副总编孙燕君，跟他谈了两天两夜。早在1995年10月20日，《中国贸易报》已经成为中国第一个上网的媒体。“当时他和我一样不懂互联网，但是他觉得互联网肯定有戏，他说马云，我支持你。”

Having made a name in Hangzhou, Jack wanted to become famous throughout China. He once again visited Beijing in December 1995. Through a friend's introduction, he became acquainted with a driver working for Beijing Youth Daily. Jack passed a manuscript together with 500 yuan to the driver. "The money is yours as long as any media outlet publishes the manuscript." The savvy driver sent the document to five media outlets, and it even made the front page of China Trade News, which Jack thereupon recognized to have good foresight. He immediately sought out the deputy editor-in-chief Sun Yanjun, with whom he spoke for two days and nights. China Trade News had already become China's first web-based media on the 20th of October 1995. "Like myself, he didn't understand the Internet at that time, but he could feel its potential. He told me he supported me." 

一个月后，北京长安俱乐部，孙燕君请了京城各大媒体30多位编辑记者，马云出3万元钱，得到了向京城媒体集体宣讲互联网的机会。北京网速太慢，没办法联网，马云就将内容全部拷到硬盘上。

A month later, Jack forked out 30,000 yuan for the opportunity to give a talk about the Internet at Beijing Chang'an Club to an assembly of more than 30 editors and journalists invited by Sun Yanjun from Beijing's various major media outlets. He had to store all of his content on a hard disk because Beijing's network speeds were too slow to connect to the web. 

大清早，将两台从杭州带来的486电脑安装好，马云就在那里等编辑记者们陆续到场。那天，马云讲了两个小时，讲什么是互联网，网络有什么好处。

Early that morning, he readied the two i486 computers he had brought over from Hangzhou and waited at the club for the arrival of the editors and journalists. Subsequently that day, he spoke for two hours explaining what the Internet was and what benefits it had. 

马云没等到文章见报，因为，第二天上面就有文件下来，要求暂时不要宣传互联网。“他们说，马云，你如果能够说服《人民日报》上网的话，我们就可以报道了。”马云通过一个朋友认识了《人民日报》办公室里的一个行政人员。有天晚上，马云和他聊得很晚，这个时候来了一个人，他问：你们在聊什么？马云说在聊互联网。这个人就跟马云聊起来，这个人就是《人民日报》发展局局长谷家旺。临了，谷家旺说：“你应该给《人民日报》处以上干部讲一次Internet。”马云给《人民日报》讲了两次Internet，并参与了《人民日报》上网的框架构思。“《人民日报》对我还不错，我把北京杭州来回的车票钱，还有日常开支都赚回了。”在京期间，马云住在朋友办公室里，天天吃麦当劳，一直吃到现在见了麦当劳就想吐。

But no articles regarding his talk were published in the newspapers. This was because the day after his talk, the media outlets received a notice from on high with instructions not to publicize the Internet for the time being. "They told me that they would be able to report on it if I could persuade People's Daily to go online." Jack soon got to know an executive from the People's Daily's office through a friend. One night, Jack was chatting with this acquaintance until it was very late when someone walked over and asked, "What are you two chatting about?" After Jack told him they were discussing the Internet, this person joined in the conversation. He was the director of the development bureau of People's Daily, Gu Jiawang. In the end, he said, "You should give a talk about the Internet to the upper management of People's Daily." Thereafter, Jack gave not one but two talks to the People's Daily and participated in the newspaper's framework and planning processes for its online venture. "The People's Daily treated me well. I managed to make back not only my travel fare between Beijing and Hangzhou, but also my daily expenses." While in Beijing, Jack stayed in his friend's office, and ate McDonald's every day until he will vomit if he sees the golden curvy M today. 

马云越来越有名，中国黄页越做越大，引起杭州电信注意，杭州电信也做了一个中国黄页，域名是：chinesepage.com，分食马云的市场。“杭州电信注册资本三个亿，我们才2万，另外，田溯宁的亚信当时也虎视眈眈。”1996年3月，马云决定和杭州电信合并。中国黄页作价60万元，占30%股份，杭州电信投现金140万人民币，占70%股份。1996年，中国黄页营业额做到了700万人民币，但马云和杭州电信合作并不愉快。“做.COM公司犹如养孩子，而杭州电信想赚现钱，你不可能让3岁小孩去挣钱吧！” 

Jack's fame grew as China Pages became ever bigger. This caught the attention of Hangzhou Telecom, which began to set up its own version of China Pages, at the domain chinesepage.com, to compete in Jack's market. "Hangzhou Telecom had a registered capital of 300 million yuan, whereas we had only 20,000 yuan. Moreover, Tian Suning's AsiaInfo was also lurking." Jack decided to merge his company with Hangzhou Telecom in March 1996. China Pages was valued at 600,000 yuan and took a 30% stake, while Hangzhou Telecom pumped in 1.4 million yuan and took a 70% stake. Although China's Yellow Pages business made a turnover of 7 million yuan in 1996, Jack was not happy about the partnership with Hangzhou Telecom. "Running a dot-com is like raising a child. Instead, Hangzhou Telecom only thinks about making fast money. You can't ask a three-year-old child to earn money, right?"  

1997年初，在得到外经贸部进京成立中国国际电子商务中心（EDI）邀请后，马云决定放弃中国黄页。他将自己所持的21%中国黄页以每股2、3毛钱的价格贱卖给了公司，拿回10多万元。当时中国黄页账上还有107万现金，40多万应收款。“等于已经打开局面。”“自从我离开之后，中国黄页再就没有赚过钱。”“做企业，个人英雄主义必须去除。个人英雄主义最后反而会把企业给害了。”外经贸部给了中国国际电子商务中心200万元启动资金，还说给马云他们30%股份。马云很兴奋地从杭州带了5个兄弟北上，6个人租了一个20平方米的房间，连续苦干了15个月。外经贸部官方站点、网上中国商品交易市场、网上中国技术出口交易会、中国招商、网上广交会和中国外经贸等一系列网站全干了出来。网上中国商品交易市场是中国政府首次组织的互联网上的大型电子商务实践，净利润做到了287万元。事情做出来了，但马云们的股份在体制内却很难落实。“我们那时候就拿几千元一个月的工资，其他什么也没有。”

Jack decided to give up on China Pages after receiving an invitation from MOFTEC to establish China International Electronic Commerce Center (CIECC) in Beijing in early 1997. He sold his 21% stake in China Pages back to the company at a price of 20 to 30 cents per share, and received more than 100,000 yuan. At that time, China Pages had 1.07 million yuan of cash and more than 400,000 yuan of receivables in its accounts. "It was all but in smooth operation already. China Pages never made a profit after I left. Individualistic heroism must be gotten rid off in order to do business, for it'll ultimately harm the business instead." MOFTEC provided a start-up capital of 2 million yuan to CIECC and offered Jack a 30% stake in the company. He excitedly brought over five brothers from Hangzhou, and together the six of them rented an apartment of 20 square meters and toiled for 15 straight months. They created a series of websites for entities including MOFTEC, China's Commodity Trading Market Online, China's Technology Export Fair Online, China Merchants Bank, and Canton Fair Online. In particular, China's Commodity Trading Market Online was the Chinese government's first attempt at organizing a large-scale e-commerce business, and it made a net profit of 2.87 million yuan. After they finished their work, however, Jack and his brothers found it difficult to liquidate their shares within the system. "At that time, we received a monthly pay of a few thousand yuan, and nothing else." 

1998年底的互联网越来越热，借助外经贸部平台，马云认识了杨志远，结交了广泛的外贸关系。名有了，关系有了，方向有了，资源有了，4年时间，舍弃两次，算什么，马云决心重新开始。

The Internet began to boom in late 1998. Over MOFTEC's platform, Jack became acquainted with Jerry Yang and established relations with a wide range of foreign trading partners. 

阿里巴巴带头大哥

The Alpha of Alibaba 

1999年 2月21日，杭州湖畔花园马云家。摄像机在进行全程录像。马云妻子、同事、学生、朋友，18个人或坐或站，围绕着他们的首领马云。

Hupan Garden, Hangzhou, 21 February 1999. Inside Jack Ma's home, a camera is recording the entire scene. Standing or sitting around Jack are 18 people, comprising of his wife, colleagues, students, and friends. 

马云将手一挥，“从现在起，我们要做一件伟大的事情。我们的BToB将为互联网服务模式带来一次革命！”马云掏出身上的钱往桌上一放，“启动资金必须是 Pocket money（闲钱），不许向家人朋友借钱，因为失败可能性极大。我们必须准备好接受‘最倒霉的事情’。但是，即使是泰森把我打倒，只要我不死，我就会跳起来继续战斗！”

Jack waved his hand and said, "We shall do something noble from now onwards. Our B2B shall revolutionize the service model of the Internet!" He fished out a few coins from his pocket and placed them on the table. "Because the likelihood of failure is extremely high, our start-up capital has to be our own pocket money. There shall be no borrowing of money from family members or friends. We must be prepared for the worst case scenario. But, even if I'm knocked down by Mike Tyson, I'll get on my feet and continue fighting as long as I'm not dead!" 

马云讲疯了，他讲得酣畅淋漓，痛快淋漓。他终于讲明白了4年来一直在讲的互联网。马云先讲新浪走势，后讲自己的前途。“现在，你们每个人留一点吃饭的钱，将剩下的钱全部拿出来。”另外，“你们只能做连长、排长，团级以上干部我得另请高明。”

Jack was talking crazy. He poured his heart out fully and impassionedly. He was finally able to explain what the Internet, which he had spoken non-stop about for four years, was. He started by talking about new trends before moving on to his own future. "Now, I want all of you to take out your money and keep only a little for food. All of you can only be 'captains' and 'sergeants' within the company. I'll hire better-qualified people for the upper management." 

根据马云“不得向亲戚朋友借钱”的指示，后来被成为18“罗汉”的创业者们凑了50万元本金。办公室设在马云家里，最多挤过35个人。马云规定，员工必须在他家附近租房，确保五分钟可以到公司。工资大家都一样，每月500元，10个月内没假期。“发令枪一响，你不可能有时间去看对手是怎么跑的，你只有一路狂奔。”马云要求员工每天工作16到18小时，困了就席地而卧。干得太辛苦，马云就下厨为大家做几道菜。

According to Jack's instructions not to borrow money from family members or friends, the co-founders, who later became known as the "18 arhats", pooled together 500,000 yuan in capital. Their office was set up in Jack's home, which was only big enough for 35 people to squeeze into. He stipulated that every staff must rent an apartment within five minutes of the office. Everyone's pay was fixed at 500 yuan per month, and they would have no holidays for the first ten months. "After the starting pistol is fired, you won't have time to look at how your opponents are running. Your only option is to run as fast and wild as you can." Jack demanded that every staff work for 16 to 18 hours a day. They could sleep on the floor when they were exhausted. He would cook up a few dishes for everyone when work became too tough. 

alibaba.com域名是马云1998年底在美国餐厅吃饭时突然想到的，他随即问餐厅侍者，知不知道阿里巴巴？侍者笑了：芝麻开门！马云跑到街上又问了几个人，回答都是：芝麻开门。“从我外婆到我儿子，他们都会读阿里巴巴。”“世界上几乎所有语言中的发音都是‘ａ－ｌｉ－ｂａ－ｂａ’，也就是说全世界的商人都可以没有困难地接受我们网站的名字。”马云最终从100多个名字中选择了阿里巴巴。

Jack had conceived the domain name "alibaba.com" while eating in a restaurant in the United States in late 1998. He had casually asked a waiter whether he knew who Ali Baba was, to which the waiter laughed and replied, "Open sesame!" Jack went to the streets and asked several people the same question, only to get identical responses. "Everyone, from my maternal grandmother to my son, has read the story of Ali Baba. Practically every language on Earth pronounces the name as 'a-li-ba-ba', and that means merchants all over the world will be able to accept our website name without difficulty." Jack eventually chose the name Alibaba out of more than a hundred ideas. 

商业模式是现成的，在外经贸部就探索了出来的。网上中国商品交易市场净利润287万元，从实践上证明这个市场的存在和这个商业模式的坚固健康。

He had already finalized the business model while working for MOFTEC. The net profit of 2.87 million yuan generated by China's Commodity Trading Market Online was practical proof of the existence of this market and the robust health of this business model. 

当时，中国对外贸通道主要靠“广交会”、国外展会或者依托既有的外贸关系，还很大程度上受控于香港贸易中转。入世在即，很多中国中小企业迫切需要自主控制的外贸通道。马云认为阿里巴巴借助互联网能够而且应该肩负其这个使命。

At that time, China's foreign trade depended heavily on the Canton Fair, overseas exhibitions, and existing foreign trade relations. It was also controlled to a large extent by Hong Kong, which served as a commercial transit point. China's imminent entry into the WTO meant that an autonomously-controlled foreign trade channel became a pressing need for China's SMEs. Jack believed that, with the aid of the Internet, Alibaba could and should undertake this mission. 

实现方式，马云坚持用BBS。“只要能发布供求信息，能按行业分类就行。”其他人不同意，拍着桌子和马云吵。马云拍自己脑袋，还是认为自己对。“阿里巴巴用户是不怎么会上网的商人，一定要简单。”

Jack was adamant about using BBS as the implementation method. "It can publish supply and demand information and classify by industry. That's enough." Some of his staff disagreed, and would bang on the tables as they argued with him. After beating his head, Jack remained convinced that he was right. "Alibaba's users are merchants who aren't savvy with the Internet. We have to keep the interface simple." 

1999年3月，马云在外地发电子邮件要求手下立即完成BBS设计，手下还是不同意。马云怒了，抓起长途电话，尖叫：“你们立刻、现在、马上去做！立刻！现在！马上！”他真想立马飞回去，猛拍他们脑袋。

In March 1999, Jack sent an email from out of town to his staff, demanding that they complete the design of the BBS immediately. The staff revealed that they remained opposed to Jack's idea. Enraged, Jack made a long-distance call and screamed over the phone, "GO AND DO IT RIGHT NOW, ALL OF YOU! RIGHT NOW! RIGHT! NOW!" He wished he could fly back immediately and smack every one of them on their heads. 

第四次创业，马云需要的是追随者、执行者，不是合作者。一直作为马云合作者的何一兵参与了阿里巴巴创业，无法掩饰和马云的分歧，最终和马云分道扬镳。之后两人再见面，谁也不谈工作。

This was his fourth business venture already. What Jack needed was not partners, but followers and executors. He Yibing, who had collaborated with Jack all along, became unable to conceal his differences with Jack while working on Alibaba, and eventually went his separate way. Since then, neither man would talk about work whenever they met again. 

1999年4月15日，alibaba.com上线。耶鲁博士、华尔街混迹多年的Invest AB副总裁蔡崇信听说阿里巴巴后，立即飞赴杭州洽谈投资。和马云谈了4天后，蔡崇信说：“马云，那边我不干了，我要加入阿里巴巴！”马云求之不得。“好！你来帮我管钱。”“我不会管钱，我最多管过200万人民币。”

Alibaba.com was launched online on the 15th of April 1999. After hearing about Alibaba, Joseph Tsai, a vice-president at Invest AB who had spent many years studying at Yale University and working on Wall Street, immediately got on a plane to Hangzhou to negotiate an investment with Jack. After four days of discussion, he said, "Jack, I'll give up my job to join Alibaba!" Jack was most welcoming. "Alright! You shall help me to manage money. I don't know how to manage money. The most I've ever managed is 2 million yuan." 

蔡崇信加盟增加了阿里巴巴的说服力，1999年10月29日，由高盛公司牵头，Transpac Capital、Investor AB of Sweden、Technology Development Fund of Singapore 联合向阿里巴巴投资500万美元。

Joseph's addition to the team increased Alibaba's persuasiveness. On the 29th of October 1999, a joint investment led by Goldman Sachs and comprising of Transpac Capital, Investor AB of Sweden, and the Technology Development Fund of Singapore invested US$5 million in Alibaba. 

1999年10月30日，阿里巴巴第一轮融资完成第二天，马云春风得意地飞赴北京见孙正义。那天，马云没穿西装；那天，他没想从孙正以那里融钱，因为昨天他刚融到了钱。马云只是想和孙正义谈谈他的阿里巴巴，谈谈他对互联网的看法，听听孙正义的看法。

On the 30th of October 1999, the day after Alibaba's first round of financing, Jack jubilantly flew to Beijing to meet Masayoshi Son. That day, Jack neither wore a suit nor thought about seeking investment from Son, for he had raised money just the previous day. Jack simply wanted to talk about Alibaba and the Internet to Son and hear the latter's opinions on them. 

采访手记

Interview Transcript 

历史的碎片一页页飘落

Fragments of History Fall Through the Air Page After Page 

每个人都活在自己的经验世界里，记者也不例外。2000年，《计算机世界》办展览会，时逢我的新书《中国.com》出版，我就被报社派去展台签名销书。当我同别人正聊得高兴，一个读者扯我一下：“你应该重视马云。他的阿里巴巴为中小企业开启了新的外贸通道。他在外经贸部的尝试也是开创性的，很有意义。”我笑笑，没将这位读者的话往心里去，转过身继续闲聊。那时，我心里满是三大门户，满是王志东、丁磊。

Everyone lives in a world of their own experiences, and a journalist is no different. China Computerworld ran an exhibition in the year 2000. As this coincided with the publication of my new book, "China Dotcom", I was sent by my newspaper to our exhibition booth to sign autographs and promote my book. While I was happily chatting away, a reader tugged on me and said, "You should pay attention to Jack Ma. A new foreign trade channel for SMEs has been opened by his Alibaba. His experiments at MOFTEC were also groundbreaking and inspiring." I laughed and did not take this reader's words to heart. At that time, I was preoccupied with the Three Gateways, Wang Zhidong, and Ding Lei. 

我不做外贸，从来不上alibaba.com，所以，2000年7月10日，马云出现在《福布斯》封面，媒体报道马云是50年来第一位获此殊荣的中国企业家，对此，我漠然一笑，依然没将马云当回事。

I did no foreign trade and never went on alibaba.com before. Thus, when Jack Ma appeared on the cover of Forbes on the 10th of July 2000, and the media reported that he was the first Chinese entrepreneur in 50 years to receive this honor, I smiled indifferently and continued to not take him seriously. 

2002年元旦，我到杭州采访浙大网新总裁陈纯。走在西子湖畔，我突然想起了“好玩”的“西湖论剑”，想起了马云。我知道王峻涛和马云关系很好，王峻涛是第一届和第二届“西湖论剑”嘉宾。我和王峻涛关系也很好。我拨通了王峻涛电话，我说：“我在杭州，我要找马云。”王峻涛说：“我马上让他打给你。”刚放下电话，马云的电话就到了。采访快结束的时候，马云告诉我，他外婆去世，他要赶过去，不能请我吃晚饭。“你今晚要是没别的安排，我请你喝茶。”

On New Year's Day 2002, I went to Hangzhou to interview the president of Insigma Group, Chen Chun. I suddenly thought of the interesting West Lake Discussions, and of Jack Ma. I knew that Wang Juntao had a very good relationship with Jack Ma. Wang Juntao had been a distinguished guest at the first and second West Lake Discussions. My relationship with Wang Juntao was also very good, and so I called him up and told him I was in Hangzhou and wanted to meet Jack Ma. He told me that he would get Jack Ma to call me right away. Jack Ma called as soon as I put down my phone. When my interview with him was ending, he told me that his maternal grandmother had just passed away and he needed to rush over, and so he would not be able to treat me to dinner, but that if I had no other plans at night, he could treat me to tea. 

在西子湖畔茶楼上，最终完成采访后，马云开始和我聊DoNews。他建议DoNews销售企业ID：“DoNews上多批评，也要给企业一个自己说话的地方和方式。”后来胜天落实了这个主意，就是今天的新闻通。

In the West Lakeside teahouse, after the interview was finally completed, Jack began to chat about DoNews with me. He suggested for DoNews to market enterprise IDs. "There are a lot of critical comments on DoNews. Enterprises should also have a space and way to speak." Subsequently, this idea was realized as what is Xinwentong today. 

尽管马云给我留下了很好的印象，但回到北京，我一直没敢动笔写马云。我怕自己在写一个并不存在的神奇故事。那时，阿里巴巴网站对我而言，依然遥远的像童话中的“芝麻开门”。我找不到真切感受，找不到“马云在美国遭黑社会绑架”的旁证。

Although Jack Ma left a favorable impression on me, I never dared to write about him after returning to Beijing. I was afraid that I would be writing a non-existent magical story. At that time, Alibaba's website remained as distant as the fairy tale's "open sesame" to me. I could not feel it personally, just like I could not find circumstantial evidence that Jack Ma was once kidnapped by an American syndicate. 

2003年5月10日，淘宝成立。开始抢夺eBay易趣C2C市场，没过多久，马云就宣称淘宝已经超过eBay易趣，我笑了笑，心说：“怎么可能？易趣原来是90%的市场占有率啊。”

Taobao was established on the 10th of May 2003. It began to snatch away eBay's C2C market, and after not long, Jack Ma declared that Taobao had already surpassed eBay. I laughed and told myself, "How's that possible? eBay's original market share was 90%." 

2005年8月17日，雅虎宣布，以10亿美元现金和雅虎中国全部资产为代价，换取马云创办的阿里巴巴40%的股份和35%的投票权，其中雅虎中国资产私下折价6亿美元。

On the 17th of August 2005, Yahoo announced that it would pay US$1 billion and all of Yahoo China's assets in exchange for 40% of Alibaba's shares and 35% of its voting rights. Yahoo China's assets were privately discounted by US$600 million. 

这个消息让我开始重新审视3年之前的所做的那次采访，我在自己的Blog里写到：“历史的碎片，一页页飘落，好事者拣起自己中意的那页。”

This news made me begin to reexamine the interview I had conducted three years ago. I wrote in my personal blog, "Fragments of history fall through the air page after page. Busybodies pick up whichever page catches their fancy." 

马云成功了。马云成功了，就能证明他所讲的那些故事全是真的吗？但我和大家一样爱听成功者的故事，爱听成功者总结成功经验，以达到激励自己、启发自己之目的。不排除虚假故事激励出真实故事的可能性。记者可能永远无法触摸到真实，但记者可以触摸到他自己，所以，我的故事里略去“马云在美国遭黑社会绑架”，略去“马云和孙正义在洗手间融资”，略去我认为不靠谱的故事。

Jack Ma has succeeded. Now that he has, does that really prove that all of the stories he told were true? But I, like everyone else, love listening to successful people's stories and summaries of their experiences. This helps me to motivate and inspire myself to achieve my goals. After all, false stories can inspire real ones. Perhaps a journalist may never be able to feel truth, but he can at least feel himself. That's why I omitted from my story "Jack Ma's kidnapping by an American syndicate", "Jack Ma's and Masayoshi Son's financing talks in a restroom", and other stories which I felt were dubious. 

2005年10月09日，北京东方君悦酒店大堂，我请马云喝茶。马云对我说：“只有两种媒体或者网站能够生存：一种是有特色；一种是有规模。”“DoNews以前偏左，现在偏右。”“不应该太周正了。办成新浪科技就没意思了。”

On the 9th of October 2005, I treated Jack Ma to tea in the lobby of Grand Hyatt Beijing. He told me, "Only two types of media outlets or websites can survive: one is those which have special characteristics, and the other is those which are large-scale." "DoNews used to be left-of-center, now it's right-of-center." "Stop being so regular. It'll be boring if it becomes like Sina Tech." 

那天，正陶醉在成功喜悦之中的马云讲了他的新闻观。“做过了。一定要记下来，要不等于没做。后人还会犯同样的错误。”“王峻涛能写，我能说。”对写字的人将观点和事实混在一起表述，马云很有意见。“你要是瞎猜，你就要说明，这是我的观点。”

That day, Jack Ma, who was reveling in the joy of success, spoke about his views on journalism. "When something has been done, it must be recorded, or else it's as good as not having been done before, and future generations will repeat similar mistakes." "Wang Juntao can write while I can speak." He was very critical of writers who mixed opinion and fact in their articles. "If you're making a wild guess, you have to declare that it's your personal opinion." 

那天，我问了马云一个似乎是在讨好他的问题。“为什么你能有今天，而同样聪明的中国电子商务的先驱王峻涛却还在为创业努力？”马云说：“我在前面说，演讲，做宣传，作势，而我背后，有一帮人在实干，苦哈哈地卖力干，而王峻涛身后没有18‘罗汉’。我说过了，有人做；他说过，就说过了，说过了而已。”

That day, I asked Jack Ma a question which seemed like flattery. "Why is it that you can be where you are today, while the equally-clever Wang Juntao, who is the pioneer of China's e-commerce, is still toiling away?" He replied, "While I was talking, giving speeches, doing promotions, and attitudinizing, there was a group of people behind me doing the nitty-gritty and working themselves into the ground. Conversely, Wang Juntao doesn't have '18 arhats' behind him. When I say something, there are people working on it. When he says something, it's just empty talk." 

2006年11月3日，DoNews 5G在讨论 “马云付华谊兄弟3000万广告费，而他自己是华谊兄弟股东，这是否是关联交易？”马云得知后，短信告诉正在参与讨论的牟正蓬：“我马云不贪便宜，哈哈。我马云要是那样的人，还能做什么事？”马云的这个回答使我想起，马云分股份给18罗汉，马云放弃控股用VC的钱养大阿里巴巴，这些事实都指向马云是一个只顾事情成功，而不计较小利的人，但马云的确是华谊兄弟股东，的确付了华谊兄弟3000万高额广告制作费……更有消息指出，阿里巴巴日前收购的口碑网股东马云夫人张瑛……

On the 3rd of November 2006, DoNews 5G held a discussion on the topic "Jack Ma paid Huayi Brothers 30 million yuan in advertising fees when he is a shareholder of Huayi Brothers himself. Is this a related party transaction?" When Jack Ma learned about it, he sent a message to Mu Zhengpeng, who was taking part in the discussion, saying, "Haha, I'm not a cheapskate. How could I be successful if I was that kind of person?" This response made me think of his distribution of shares to the 18 arhats, as well as his forsaking of holding and using venture capital to grow Alibaba. These facts show that Jack Ma is someone who only cares about the success of his business and does not bother about cheap gains. But he is undeniably a shareholder of Huayi Brothers, and certainly paid Huayi Brothers 30 million in advertisement production fees...  news has also pointed out that Jack Ma's wife, Zhang Ying, is a shareholder of the word-of-mouth network which Alibaba purchased a few days ago... 

“历史的碎片，一页页飘落，好事者拣起自己中意的那页。”即便拾起的是同一片落页，18“罗汉”和周鸿祎的解读也一定不同，但6年之前“应该重视马云”的提醒没错，马云是个人物。（刘韧）"

Fragments of history fall through the air page after page. Busybodies pick up whichever page catches their fancy." Even if they pick up the same fallen page, the 18 arhats and Zhou Hongyi would certainly interpret the writing differently. But the advice to pay attention to Jack Ma which I received 6 years ago was right. Jack Ma is indeed somebody. (Liu Ren) 

Publish: 刘韧